00:00:14: Welcome to Soundboard, the Steinway & Sons podcast on artistry and craftsmanship.

00:00:19: I'm your producer-and host Ben Finan director of content at Steinway.

00:00:24: If you enjoy sound board please rate review subscribe to it wherever you podge your casts.

00:00:30: Today is the birthday of Steinway immortal Duke Ellington And my guest today is Dukes granddaughter Mercedes Ellingdon.

00:00:37: She's a choreographer dancer as well as founder CEO an artistic director of the Duke Ellington Center for The Arts in New York City.

00:00:56: and

00:01:06: I would be in the capable hands of The Wives, Of The Musicians.

00:01:23: And they would sit with me In the audience... ...and i was in heaven because I Would watch a movie then see A show and a movie and a show and that Was really great!

00:01:34: As I came to know That side of my family better.. ..I was more in tune With My Father.

00:01:41: I asked him, I said well what should i call my grandfather?

00:01:45: because he was very sensitive about age.

00:01:48: He didn't even want his own son to call him pops you know but which my father did just in spite?

00:01:55: My Father suggested that I ask Him...my Grandfather What I Should Call Him and..he came up with the name Uncle Edward.

00:02:05: so from then on....I called him uncle Edward.

00:02:09: close members of his family and friends also called him Uncle Edward.

00:02:15: And I must add, he called me Aunt

00:02:16: Mercedes.".

00:02:19: So Mercedes for me Duke Ellington was a real bridge builder.

00:02:24: when i think of a musician who went from take the A train all the way through to Money Jungle which was really the entire history of jazz that shows in a way immune to any sort of generational divide.

00:02:44: I wonder if you saw that musical evolution, how he was able to roll with the times?

00:02:54: Well i can only refer to his description and he described Ella Fitzgerald as beyond category, because there was nothing that she could not sing.

00:03:15: And he never wanted to be restricted to a specific place time type of music anything... Because we want it any thing in everything to the open so they can be free to explore.

00:03:30: and essentially thats what you did.

00:03:32: if u look at his entire catalog It ranges from operas to short suites, like the river and two popular songs.

00:03:42: And everything.

00:03:44: so he really did want to be free.

00:03:47: in his advice for instance is his advice to Tony Bennett was that everyone should do at least two things.

00:03:54: So he encouraged Tony Bennett To pursue his artistic endeavors and to paint because He also painted.

00:04:04: He didn't paint a lot because I don't think he was in one place long enough to even set up an easel.

00:04:11: But he did do a few things.

00:04:14: I have a scarf for instance that he painted the word Evie Because of his lady friend who?

00:04:22: Was a dancer at The Cotton Club and His companion.

00:04:26: she was one of the people that he really always came back, too And so painted her name on a scarf.

00:04:34: The Duke

00:04:47: and Ella, so let's have a wonderful... Now I know that Tony Bennett wrote the introduction to your book on Duke Ellington.

00:05:42: He said Duke Elington was-and will remain America's foremost classical composer.

00:05:48: The breadth and depth of his work is comparable to the work of Beethoven, Bach or Mozart.

00:05:56: In five hundred years from now, his music will be revered just as much as it is

00:06:01: now.".

00:06:02: Yes!

00:06:02: So I think Mr.

00:06:03: Bennett was echoing what you were saying about people artists' music.

00:06:09: that is beyond category.

00:06:11: while

00:06:11: we don't maybe think of Duke as a classical composer... It's interesting to think of him composing American classical music is how I would put it.

00:06:22: Yes, exactly.

00:06:24: we went to Russia with them because i had always wanted to be a ballerina.

00:06:29: so when I found out they were going to russia on a state department tour...I said you are not going without me!

00:06:35: I took two weeks off the show that was doing on Broadway called No Nona Net and I went with them.

00:06:43: And one of his hopes was that he could find Tchaikovsky's original score so that he can complete and do the first act of his version, His & Billy's Version Of The

00:06:56: Nutcracker.".

00:06:57: They kept us busy!

00:06:59: I don't think He ever found it...

00:07:01: You said something in this same book that Duke carried a Bible and a Thesaurus everywhere he went?

00:07:07: Yeah Why did he carry those two books?

00:07:11: inspiration from the divine and he firmly believed that He was motivated by his belief, His religious beliefs.

00:07:25: He would play with words, and I think he just wanted to...he got certain inspiration from those words.

00:07:51: And so maybe from a phrase or something that he put together That would kick him off into the direction of an entire song Or an entire piece music Because not only wrote this songs I think it was a frustrated playwright because Queenie Pie, when we did Sophisticated Ladies that's supposed to be the story of the orchestra.

00:08:17: John Gare is supposed to write about the experiences in the very beginning.

00:08:24: but things got so contorted and busy with music The words eventually were cut out And so it became a review that consisted of about thirty two pieces music system transition.

00:08:42: That happened naturally and i think he probably would have agreed to doing that because you didn't like specifics.

00:08:49: i think you'd liked for people to have just enough information, too.

00:08:54: maybe dream up if one of the giving off information from people make their own minds as to what it was.

00:09:01: And in that way, the people would have a part in his

00:09:04: compositions.".

00:09:06: One more apart from your book there is an unfinished essay he wrote called The Race for Space.

00:09:12: I find what he wrote here so prescient but he writes.

00:09:24: In its beginnings, the USA spawned certain ideals of freedom and independence through which eventually jazz was evolved.

00:09:38: And the music is so free that many people say it as only unhampered, unhindered expression of complete freedom yet produced in this

00:09:47: country.".

00:09:49: I love the eloquence he writes with!

00:09:52: It's amazing a man who could look so eloquent or write music so eloquently and who could write words so eloquently, there's a lot of truth in what he says.

00:10:03: And I find it echoed with.

00:10:05: other musicians have told me that jazz is a

00:10:08: democracy.".

00:10:10: Like i said... He was not so quick to bind himself one idea or set up beliefs ...he was open writing about exposing himself too accepting from people anything they believed because this education.

00:10:28: That was his formal education and how he could find out about people.

00:10:34: And especially, his orchestra members... ...and each of his orchestra member were part of his persona.

00:10:43: He can be divided into however.

00:10:45: many musicians are on the stage and we don't want to point her out because i dont wanna be self conscious about the situation but we just want her to know that we know she knows who is.

00:11:16: tricks like that to say what he meant to say, and it couldn't really be pinned down or questioned about because He would leave it up to the audience to make up their minds.

00:11:26: What?

00:11:27: He was saying To interpret his work.

00:11:59: Can we shift a moment and talk about your life in dance and you're life in choreography?

00:12:05: I understand that you studied under Jose Limon And also under Martha Graham and these are two pillars of the history of dance.

00:12:16: Yes, and I would love to hear what insights you took from these two masters?

00:12:23: First of all i went to Juilliard And that's how I came in contact with these two people.

00:12:30: But I did not want to go to Juillard because I wanted to be a dancer In those days and nowadays also The dancers and athletes have very little time for their careers the body and how much you can do in the time that you have before the body starts to break down.

00:12:50: So I was in pursuit of work, of working and wanting to audition for shows and things like that but my grandfather insisted that i go to Juilliard to get formal training because he had sent all his arrangers to Juillard.

00:13:06: He sent Q, My father Luther Henderson, Billy Strayhorn went.

00:13:14: Then he sent of course me not as a musician but as a dancer and I really can value that time now and see how my career has been affected by that and the influence that i had.

00:13:27: and people came in contact with Jose Limone and Martha Graham.

00:13:35: I went in there and it was i wanted to get a bs the bachelor of science degree which is five year course but i want you do within four years so that i can get out quicker.

00:13:47: So what does summer school at temple university in philadelphia where my mom and her family were living, and i got credits for that i could get out before years.

00:13:57: when i first entered julia they suggested that i take modern because everybody had to take modern, no matter what your specialty was.

00:14:06: They suggested Jose Limone because his works were lyrical and more like ballet And they knew that I had some ballet training Because i'd a scholarship at the Metropolitan Opera School of Ballet That connected with The Met At that time.

00:14:24: So for first two years took from Jose Limon.

00:14:29: But when I saw Martha Graham's classes, I fell in love with her technique and asked if could switch.

00:14:36: And they said yes after two years of limon you can switch.

00:14:40: so i did So had to use a little more than two year of martha graham.

00:14:44: how do these teachers inform your own choreography later?

00:14:51: well i have all lot moves that are basic because this too modern giant set the bar of most what I was involved in, which is jazz dance.

00:15:04: And my tap experience came later.

00:15:08: but I came out at Juilliard with enough of an encyclopedic exposure to all these techniques that informed my choreographic career as well as my dance

00:15:20: career.".

00:15:25: music and dance because coming from such a musical family, you already must have had a solid musical base.

00:15:34: I wonder if you saw any overlap there between Music & Dance?

00:15:39: In my experience dancers often have very progressive ears And they can often hear music what some would consider difficult music.

00:15:49: They often understand it more easily your musical ear, and if music informed you dance?

00:16:00: Well that was one of the advantages of Juilliard because while at Juilliards to get that BS degree I had take music classes as well.

00:16:08: Site singing site reading And we have learn to play basic piano.

00:16:13: We know where notes were Where keys were Things like.

00:16:17: so it wasn't totally dance.

00:16:19: We had L&M literature and material Of Music And Louis Horst was one of the teachers, so we had a pretty good all round exposure not only to dance element but music.

00:16:33: We have dance notation.

00:16:35: they tried give you and I don't know if that's true today.

00:16:38: i dont what the syllabus is at present because it has changed alot.

00:16:45: But I had exposure for a lot of music theory composition etc... When I came away, when talking to a musician about what I was choreographing... ...I knew how talk him in his terms and we would be able understand each other.

00:17:05: Was your first professional experience after Juilliard?

00:17:10: Did that come with the June Taylor Dancers?

00:17:14: Well not immediately!

00:17:15: I had hard time getting at this point because dancers of color did not have that many opportunities either on Broadway, nor in any of the dance companies except for Alvin Ailey and a couple other smaller companies.

00:17:34: But when it came to The Big Ballet Companies an exception was Arthur Mitchell who I think is Balanchine's company And then you didn't have anybody after that Who was able to carry on the ballet tradition.

00:17:50: I remember somebody telling me that Balanchine said people of color, their bodies were not meant for ballet.

00:17:59: They weren't built for ballet.

00:18:01: There are things they're not talked about now or have changed and certainly People of Color are getting more accepted in the classical world.

00:18:12: but i think Things still... even politically you can follow the trend of the arts and art should be so separate or at least that I should be able to influence.

00:18:27: The political world because sometimes you just listen to the political world.

00:18:32: they don't know what their talking about now or net.

00:18:36: Coleman is down two basics or not?

00:18:40: Coleman was a musician who had a theory that he demonstrated by having a bowl water on table.

00:18:47: He said, you put the bowl of water on a table and you have a musician playing in close proximity to that ball of water.

00:18:56: And you'll see the bowl-of-water move to the sounds of

00:19:01: music.".

00:19:03: Then he asked this question what does it do with liquid in your body?

00:19:08: So if we are around those musical waves... What is happening between the water and the liquid in our

00:19:16: bodies?".

00:19:18: To that end, the Lewis Armstrong Music and Medicine Foundation offer musicians who go to hospitals.

00:19:26: They compose choirs to sing And they put that into action.

00:19:32: for instance my mother was a ballroom dancer and when she became of age She was in an assisted living place.

00:19:41: I Was going to visit her one day and she was doing a step, a tap-step called the shim sham.

00:19:48: I was so surprised!

00:19:50: I said what where did you learn that?

00:19:53: Then she tells me that she was a ballroom dancer... ...and she belonged to this group of women call The Noiserelles And they would with their partners go to their parents' dances.. ..And at intermission They would entertain The parents with their dances.

00:20:12: and in that day you had the Renaissance ballroom.

00:20:15: You have the Savoy Ballroom, the Audubon Ballroom.

00:20:19: That was prior to popular watching television And staying home sitting down getting fat.

00:20:27: So she was surprising me.

00:20:29: but it's a trend happened.

00:20:32: There is close relationship between dancers and musicians.

00:20:38: Also, in an improvisational way when you see improvisational tap dancers who are very much influenced and have a conversation with the musicians.

00:20:49: And they are really attached to the same qualifications and the same airwaves as the musician.

00:20:57: so when dancers and musicians Are performing together You can detect the relationship between the two and that is also One of the reasons why in Sophisticated Ladies, my father ended up with The Musicians being on stage.

00:21:14: one of the first times that a full orchestra was onstage during Broadway musicals.

00:21:20: The singers and dancers had close relationship With the musicians because they were right behind them backing him back.

00:21:31: I want to go Back to that baked-in racism from Balanchine.

00:21:36: Oh yes

00:21:37: To say something like that out loud, it reminded me of when Jimmy the Greek got fired.

00:21:42: You remember in the eighties he was explaining how African-Americans have a genetic advantage when it comes to athletics

00:21:51: right?

00:21:52: So It can be used as a pro When its convenient.

00:21:58: yes and I know Mercedes you were first woman color Taylor dances that was featured on the Jackie Gleason show.

00:22:12: Yeah, tell me about that trip!

00:22:15: Well I met June Taylor in the beginning because she had a school...a dance school..on Broadway and about fifty-fifth street And there were all kinds of ballet jazz and tap teachers teaching in her studio.

00:22:28: i started taking lessons in that studio ...and thats how I met her at first place.

00:22:32: I knew that she was the choreographer of The Jones Beach Marine Theater Productions, which happened at Jones Beach every summer.

00:22:43: There were some really extravagant production like Around the World in Eighty Days or something and it was book material most of the time.

00:22:54: And the orchestra was Guy Lombardo Was also a live orchestra playing float his musicians on this not on the pontoon between The main stage and the fourth stage but in the water in-between They.

00:23:12: that's where they would play from.

00:23:13: And then you heard and saw all of these dances, and the action.

00:23:18: This singing action was From That Place.

00:23:22: Now this Was like a prime example Of Dancer's career.

00:23:27: Not A soloist But An Ensemble Dancer.

00:23:31: That was the greatest thing that you could have because it lasted all summer.

00:23:35: And then you can go and get unemployment.

00:23:37: So, you were in It for the whole time.

00:23:40: You had an income An insured income For a long period of Time.

00:23:46: so every year everybody would Get ready to Go To The Audition for this event.

00:23:52: There Were A lot I think there At least be eighteen to twenty Dancers Who Hired Men & Women Because It Was Huge Cast.

00:24:00: That was the first time that i met june taylor so i audition and i went in at least three of her shows out at jones beach.

00:24:11: And then a friend of mine called me up one time instead.

00:24:15: are you going to audition for the gleason show that june is gonna be doing it like, I said well i don't think they hire any people of color.

00:24:25: maybe ill go just learn the combination because This was a thing that happened on broad way to lot of people in color knew they weren't going to be hired but we all went.

00:24:36: just learn the combination and i would like free jazz class.

00:24:41: Then we know you don't need this miss me go out have coffee afterwards.

00:24:45: so i said well yeah then get i'll have chance to see some my friends, So I got a call from a friend and she said, I know the combination.

00:24:54: Come over to my house we'll go on the roof And i'll teach you the tap combination.

00:24:59: because that was My weak spot.

00:25:01: is tap dancing?

00:25:02: so She taught me The Tap Combination?

00:25:04: And I Was still A little Fuzzy about it.

00:25:07: but at least I had a kind of a Head Start and The Ed Sullivan Theater Was Where Stephen Colbert.

00:25:16: He Now Has That Same Stage.

00:25:19: So every time I see the Stephen Colbert show on television, i remember that's where we were dancing and The audition took place on the top floor of the building.

00:25:30: And I remember going through all of it All of the ballet and the jazz and the tap.

00:25:37: It was a long day starting at ten am with A buncha people.

00:25:45: She was eliminating as We went along.

00:25:47: she would line up After each of the series of combinations, she would line us all up and she would eliminate people.

00:25:55: And it got down to a very few in the lineup... I was standing on the line and looked up-and-down and saw and counted like maybe seventeen or eighteen people!

00:26:05: I just was expecting that i'd be the next person to be eliminated.

00:26:11: I kept my clothes so I could hotfooted over make change go home.

00:26:17: And then there were a couple of other eliminations, and then Gleason walked in the room.

00:26:24: Jack Philbin walked in that he was the producer... ...and they were talking amongst themselves!

00:26:30: Then they announced.

00:26:32: June said, Ladies congratulations you are next June Taylor

00:26:35: Dancers!!

00:26:37: I thought we're making a

00:26:38: mistake!!!

00:26:40: I was getting ready to go get my things and june said oh no you stay your one of the new year going to be one other dancers.

00:26:49: And then she took me aside and she said now there's gonna be a big deal about this, but just remember if u don't live up two dances is it make too many mistakes?

00:27:01: if you dont keep up here work i will fire you because she use the fire girls every week from the line because of either.

00:27:12: they had Torn tights if they didn't behave.

00:27:14: If they started arguments, it was really.

00:27:19: we were like soldiers.

00:27:21: By the time I got dressed and i went to the phone booth outside And called my mom in philadelphia she already knew Because it had been on the news.

00:27:31: Wow

00:27:32: It was high pressure.

00:27:34: and then this wasn't a time.

00:27:35: This is the same year that kennedy was assassinated And I just, you know...I felt self-conscious about everything.

00:27:43: Did you feel a pressure?

00:27:44: An added pressure?

00:27:46: Oh my lord!

00:27:47: I'm representing the black race here on this show.

00:27:50: Not only that..I felt the pressure because my tap dancing was not great and so every day after rehearsal i would go take a tap class.

00:27:59: That's the concern.

00:28:02: There is lot of pressure but You can't pay attention to it.

00:28:07: And that's what I think, I got from my grandfather because he was not really paying attention to that.

00:28:13: Because what he had to say about it... He did with his music.

00:28:17: and so now i'm in this dance line and That is proofing itself that What?

00:28:24: I have To Say About It.

00:28:26: I'm In The Line.

00:28:27: You Know.

00:28:28: the Best That I Could Do Is My Version Of.

00:28:31: Well you know This Is How It Should Be.

00:28:33: That's right, this is how it should be.

00:28:35: And I think its just a shame that we have to keep saying This Is How It Should Be every fifteen years.

00:28:42: Yeah

00:28:42: These battles are fought and i thought were won Seemed to be re-fought all the time.

00:28:52: Well since you brought Duke back into let me ask what was it that drove you over twenty years ago To found The Duke Ellington Center for the Arts?

00:29:03: What was your goal in founding this institution?

00:29:07: It was a five oh one.

00:29:08: C three, which meant the category.

00:29:12: Was educational.

00:29:14: it gave me thought that we could be very creative and setting up events programs concerts to demonstrate all of and through song, all of the performing arts.

00:29:36: We could use that as a venue for lots of dancers.

00:29:42: there's always scholarships for younger dancers And so this can be an opportunity For other people who are not necessarily on scholarship but they had an opportunity to do their craft in professional way In front of an audience.

00:29:59: I mean A lot take classes as a career.

00:30:04: There's some people who if they didn't take classes, They would never dance especially People of color.

00:30:11: there were some people I knew they used these classes that they took the jazz Classes their tap classes As performances for themselves because there was no opportunity in any place In The professional world For them neither on Broadway or A professional company But nowadays, you have people of color in the Rockettes.

00:30:35: You know lots other areas where there never was before.

00:30:42: We're beyond Alvin Ailey and Revelations.

00:30:45: Yes!

00:30:47: Absolutely

00:30:49: Well.

00:30:49: thank-you so much for speaking with me Mercedes And Thank-you For The Work Your Doing.

00:30:53: I really appreciate your time today.

00:30:57: I'm going to make us both sound

00:31:00: normal.

00:31:00: We're exceptional, we are not normal!

00:31:02: Thank you for correcting me on that... I

00:31:04: know this business is normal.

00:31:06: That's so true and the words of Duke love you madly And i hope see next time im in New York City.

00:31:13: Okay and ill add four kisses One For Each Cheek.

00:31:52: You've been listening to Soundboard The Steinway & Sons Podcast On Artistry In Craftsmanship.

00:31:58: Our opening music is Philip Glass' Mad Rush played on a Steinway Model M by me, Ben Finan.

00:32:05: Our closing music is the title track from Money Jungle On Blue Note Records featuring Duke Ellington, Charlie Mingus and Max Roach.

00:32:14: We heard a bit of Duke in Ella Fitzgerald performing at Don't Mean A Thing if it ain't got that swing... ...on The Ed Sullivan Show And we hear Duke joined by John Coltrane for Innocentimental Mood on Verve.

00:32:25: Question for the podcast?

00:32:27: Email me at infoatsteinway.com with the subject heading soundboard.

00:32:31: Message me on Facebook at Steinway, or hit the gram with Steinway & Sons.

00:32:36: Subscribe to Soundboard on Spotify, Apple Music, Deezer...or wherever you podge your casts!

00:32:41: Thank You for listening.